MILLER: Good evening.

Welcome to our estate planning seminar and panel discussion.

I'm Mike Miller live from the CET studios.

With me are my fellow members of the CET/Think TV Planned Giving Committee, David Bross, Chris Buttress, Kristin Lenhart, and Jami Vallandingham.

The seminar portion that will be shared was prerecorded last year.

At that time, Jami, Chris and I answered dozens of questions that were asked by viewers like you and based on the popularity of last year's event, we've asked David and Kristin to join us this year.

Use the box below the video to ask your questions, and we'll be back in about half an hour to respond.

We'll see you then.

LENSMAN: Good evening, I'm Kitty Lensman, President and CEO of CET and ThinkTV.

Welcome to Plant the Seed, our virtual estate planning seminar.

Nearly 10 years ago, CET and ThinkTV were part of a small consortium of PBS stations who were asked to help others in the PBS family to establish or grow their Planned Giving Programs.

We were asked partly because of the extraordinary dedication of members in the community who formed the CET Planned Giving Committee.

This group, led by Chris Buttress, has helped the station establish a number of community resources and we are so grateful for their time and talent.

Non-profits like CET and ThinkTV truly benefit from planned gifts, and we have seen a tremendous increase in gift notifications and realized requests over the years.

These planned gifts, unless noted by the donor, go to our endowment so that our work continues for future generations.

The session we're about to share was prerecorded in our studios by three members of the CET Planned Giving Committee.

Please enjoy the program and use the chat box below to ask your questions.

Our experts will answer them live from the studios in just a few minutes.

Here is Plant the Seed: A Discussion about Estate Planning.

[MUSIC] MILLER: Hi and welcome to the CET and ThinkTV Planned Giving Seminar and Panel Discussion.

You may have received one of these hard copy or electronic financial planning booklets from your PBS station and have been wondering, "What do I do with it or what do I need to get my plans in order?"

We hope this session will help guide and answer some of your questions.

I'm Mike Miller, a volunteer at CET and Head of Wealth Management at LCNB National Bank.

Joining me, socially distanced of course, are two other volunteers, Chris Buttress, a partner and estate planning attorney with Graydon; and Jami Vallandingham, a shareholder and CPA with VonLehman.

Ladies, welcome.

VALLANDINGHAM: Thanks, Mike.

BUTTRESS: Thank you, Mike.

MILLER: You know, ladies, as I look at this brochure, I see that there are a lot of decisions to be made when we talk about estate planning and planned giving.

And I'd like to get your thoughts on how do you have a conversation with people to make sure that the decisions that they make are by choice and not by chance?

Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: So really, Mike, I appreciate you having us here today.

You know, the discussion really comes down to just being comfortable with the client because they really need to be honest with you in really and what they are thinking.

They need to make sure that they're doing what they feel is important and not kind of succumbing to different pressures.

And really just talking to them, walking through the process, the things that are important, things that they're thinking about, but don't really know how to handle, don't know how to step forward with that.

MILLER: How about you, Chris, from an attorney's perspective, how do you start that conversation?

BUTTRESS: Mike, I ask a lot of questions.

Clients often come to me and say, "I think I need" whatever.

And by asking questions, I'm able to clarify what's really important to them, what their goals and objectives are, and sometimes eliminate the misconceptions they have based on conversations with their friends, their neighbor, family, their hairdresser, whoever it is that gives them the best advice.

MILLER: It would seem straightforward.

It would seem like it's a good idea for people to do estate planning, a good idea for people to do, you know, thoughtful plan giving.

But I know from my past, you know, estate planning practice, people don't want to have those conversations.

Why not, Chris?

BUTTRESS: Well, there are a lot of reasons that people don't want to have the conversations.

They're uncomfortable with the topic.

They have to face their own mortality, and that's difficult.

Oftentimes, spouses don't necessarily agree on what they want for their children and their family.

The inability to make a decision on who's going to be the guardian for your children can be one of the most difficult things to make.

And a lot of times people have cultural issues that cause them to be unable to deal with these kinds of situations.

MILLER: Jami, how about from your perspective?

VALLANDINGHAM: I think also one of the things is a lot of times people don't know where to go.

Really, just depending on what your family or your friends are, you may not know who to actually talk to about it.

So it is somewhat scary as far as, "Who do I open my soul up to and tell them all of these things that are so near and dear to me?'

MILLER: Well, it seems to me that people should talk to people that they trust.

And I also know a lot of very smart people that do estate planning or want to do their estate planning they want to make planned gifts, but they just put off the decisions and they put off the process.

Why do you think that is?

VALLANDINGHAM: I think Chris actually hit on quite a few of the topics.

You know, one of the things that they have to think about is that I'm not going to be around forever.

And hopefully by going through this process, they do understand that it's not as bad as what you think.

It's really just taking that first step and trying to get things established.

But really, it is a mortality issue that you're worrying about for yourself.

MILLER: But do people really understand the legacy that they can leave for their children, for their communities?

VALLANDINGHAM: Right.

And really, through this process, so much of it is designating some of those things, whether it be what you want your charitable gifts to be after you pass, who you really want to run things for you, who should take over.

You know, business succession planning is a big thing.

And really, what is the plan for G2 running through, or generation two, excuse me, when you start talking about transitioning your business as well?

MILLER: Chris, you mentioned cultural impediments.

What kind of things are you talking about when you say that?

BUTTRESS: Well, people come from different cultural backgrounds and in some cultures people just don't talk about death.

I had that experience recently with a potential new client.

We had a very nice conversation.

And the person said to me, "Chris, you have to understand we don't talk about death in our culture."

So that's the extreme.

And sometimes it's just within families.

They don't talk about money.

They don't talk about what's going to happen when mom or dad passes.

They just can't deal with those kinds of issues.

MILLER: How do you respond to those things?

How do you help people to understand the importance of making those decisions and having to have those conversations?

BUTTRESS: Well, each of us is going to die someday, I hate to tell you, and we don't know when it's going to be.

So the thing is, if you want it to be as painless as possible for your family members, not that it's going to be painless, it's important to plan and not just leave things to chance.

There are a lot of things that we can't control in this world, but the decisions and the planning we make in advance are things that are within our control.

You know, when I talk about estate planning, sometimes people think it's all about dollars and cents.

It's like the game of Monopoly.

And I tell them, "No, it's not the game of Monopoly.

It's the Game of Life.

Some of it is about dollars and cents and some of it's just about the things that happen in the course of our lives.

Some of them are things that we choose and some of them are things that just occur."

MILLER: Jami, I'm trying to get over my anxiety about Chris telling me I'm going to die someday.

But is that the reason that a lot of people procrastinate and they just put it off because they think, "I've got plenty of time.

We'll just wait and see what happens"?

That's not a good idea, I would imagine.

VALLANDINGHAM: Not a good idea.

And that really is one of the biggest hampers that there are, is that people think I have time and you really don't.

You have no idea what's going to happen.

And to do a little bit of homework up front can really, really impact your family.

And they're going through a tough time when you do pass.

So if you can kind of ease that at all, it would be very helpful for them too.

MILLER: I've talked about -- I've mentioned the words, I should say, estate planning and planned giving.

As an attorney, why don't you help us understand the difference between the two and how they do intersect at some points?

BUTTRESS: Well, estate planning is a much broader area.

You know, sort of the technical legal definition is it deals with the disposition of your property during your lifetime and after.

Planned giving really relates to your charitable goals.

It can be during a lifetime.

You know, what's the best way to make those dollars do as much as they possibly can for the organizations that are near and dear to you?

Do you give cash?

Do you give stock?

Do you use your IRA?

All of those things enter into it.

And, you know, it's hard to make an unplanned gift, but a planned gift is a well thought out gift that accomplishes your goals and objectives and does the best job it possibly can for the organizations that you support.

MILLER: Jami, as an accountant, what's your perspective on that?

VALLANDINGHAM: I agree with Chris.

The things that you can lay out beforehand are so important.

You may think people know what you want, but there's no guarantee at all that that is truly what's going to happen after you are gone.

Unfortunately there I have seen enough situations that things can go pretty south pretty quick after you pass and people are making decisions that, you know, in my position, I may very well know that's not what they wanted, but it's their decision is theirs.

So the heirs are the ones making those decisions when you do not have the plans laid out.

MILLER: I guess this is not a one time conversation.

How does that process work?

I mean, a client comes to you and says, "I'm interested in estate planning.

I need a will.

I need a trust.

I need a lawyer."

How do you process that and how often should you talk to your clients about that?

VALLANDINGHAM: So really, once you get the baseline established, that really should be revisited every 3-5 years.

Things change, rules change, your ideas change.

I know just from my own experience, when I first did all of mine on my will and my medical directives, there were some things I put in there.

And given that I'm a little bit older now, it's time and I need to redo mine.

And it just -- there are things that change as you get older, as your life changes, as your situation changes, you absolutely need to revisit.

And, you know, with clients, once you know it's established, it's really working with their advisors as well.

You are a team and take the team approach and hopefully that then covers all the bases.

You make sure things are updated as necessary.

MILLER: Chris, tell us what documents should be in place for a well thought out estate plan.

BUTTRESS: Well, typically when we talk to clients about estate planning, we talk about a will.

We may talk about a trust agreement, depending on their circumstances.

We talk about a durable general power of attorney.

We talk about a health care power of attorney and a living will.

And the health care power of attorney and living will have nothing to do with financial matters, they have to do with medical decision making.

A health care power of attorney applies any time I don't have the ability to make my own medical decisions.

And older people often times understand the importance of those documents., but any adult really should have a health care power of attorney, and if they like, a living will.

MILLER: I watch CET all the time, I love their programing.

My family enjoys it.

I want to make a gift to CET or another charity.

I write a check, I send it to them.

Is that a planned gift or are we talking about something a little more complex than simply writing a check?

BUTTRESS: Well, that check can be a planned gift, but a planned gift really involves thinking through the goals and objectives of the organization, as well as your own personal goals and objectives.

And understanding that it can be more cost effective to use certain vehicles, for example, giving appreciated stock.

The charity gets the whole value of the stock and you didn't have to report any capital gains.

Using IRA dollars can be cost effective because those would be taxable to you, but not to the charitable organization.

So there are many things during your lifetime that might be a planned gift or it might be something that comes into play upon your passing.

It might be provided under your will, your trust agreement, again, an IRA beneficiary designation, a life insurance beneficiary designation.

There are many vehicles out there and it's really important to understand which vehicle is best suited for your circumstances.

MILLER: What are some of the decision points in those documents?

Who do people need to think about having appointed for their planning issues?

BUTTRESS: Well, some of the documents relate to lifetime matters.

So health care decisions, you know, who is it that you want to make health care decisions for you if you can't make those decisions for yourself?

And older individuals are very aware that they may lose that ability.

But those of us who aren't that old or even very young individuals, someone could be injured or in an automobile accident and need to have someone make decisions for them.

So it's important to have not just a primary person, but backup people named so that there's always someone available.

With a general power of attorney, you're looking at somebody making business decisions for you.

And that may not be the same person who's best suited to make health care decisions.

And those are things that occur during your lifetime.

In a will you name an executor, the person who will take charge of your property, make sure your debts and expenses are paid, and make sure that what's left passes to the appropriate individuals.

If you have a trust, you have a trustee who acts for you.

And again, that person may know everything about trust and be able to handle it themselves, but they may have to hire other people to help them, or you may choose to use a bank or trust company.

So there are a lot of different people in various roles.

If you have young children, you're concerned about who would be the guardian of your minor children until they reached the age of majority, the age of 18.

So there are a lot of different people performing different functions and it may not be the right role for each and every person.

MILLER: Jami, how do you deal with that with your clients when they come to you and say, "Well, my daughter's pretty smart, she should do it."

Or "My son's pretty smart, he should do it."

Or "My Uncle Bill was the executor of his mother's estate and maybe he should do it because he has the experience."

How do you talk to people about the proper appointments within those documents?

VALLANDINGHAM: You definitely need to walk through their responsibilities and the position that you're putting them in to make certain that, number one, they are capable of handling it.

And number two, also that they can follow it through, that they will make certain that they're following your directives in the end, because it is very important.

The person that you select, as Chris indicated, it can be multiple people in every situation and each one of those different documents you have.

But it is very important to make sure that they understand the person that -- They being the person that you have designated -- they understand their responsibilities because they can be great responsibility.

MILLER: You know, as a banker, I like to talk about money.

And one thing that hits me as we're talking is the fact that you both charge for your services, I presume, right, Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yes.

MILLER: Chris, right?

BUTTRESS: Yes, definitely.

MILLER: Is that an impediment for some people?

Do they think it's just way too expensive and "I don't need to spend the money on that, because it's just a bunch of papers and a couple of conversations"?

But, "Boy, you know, those lawyers and those accountants, they charge an awful lot."

How do you respond to that, Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yeah, and that is a good point, Mike.

That is something that does kind of stand in the way of it.

However, if you really think about the impact that you have by getting everything in line before you do pass, the amount of money that can be saved in the long run from an estate perspective, it's really well worth it.

And again, it does help out your family, if you can take care of most of those things ahead of time, it's well worth the fees that are paid and the time that is spent to do it.

MILLER: Chris, what do you think?

BUTTRESS: Definitely, I tell people, you know, you get what you pay for.

If you try to do it yourself, use a kit, try to fill in a couple of forms, in the long run you'll probably create a bigger mess and will incur more fees for your family.

And yes, it's difficult to spend money today when you expect to be around for 20, 30, 40, 50 years.

But it's really important to value the services that are provided to you and to realize what a blessing you're giving your family for planning ahead.

MILLER: Well, let's follow up on that a little bit.

You know, I know I can go online, I can get some forms, I can fill in the blanks.

And I'm a reasonably intelligent person, so I'm sure I can understand the context of what those documents are.

Why should I talk to you instead of just filling out the forms and put them in a drawer?

BUTTRESS: Well, you may be able to fill out the forms, but you probably don't understand the law behind the forms and what many of the words mean and accomplish.

It's important to fully understand what you're accomplishing by putting the words in a blank.

It's also important that the forms be properly executed, meaning signed, witnessed, notarized.

And you need guidance in helping to make the decisions that will be reflected in those forms.

Yes, people think all we do is change the names, change the date.

It's just a form.

And that's true of a lot of the language, but there are various decisions that are reflected and those decisions should be well thought out.

MILLER: Jami, what do you think?

I should fill out the forms or call Chris?

VALLANDINGHAM: No, call Chris?

Absolutely.

She is exactly right.

There are so many nuances to that.

And yes, you can go to any store or online and get those forms, but there so much more in there, state specific things as well.

That by talking to someone like Chris, she can address all of those things, in particular based on your state.

MILLER: You know, we're having a really good conversation here with an accountant and a lawyer.

When I think about my own estate planning, my own planned gift legacies, my future of my family, aren't there other professionals that I should be talking to?

And how do we coordinate conversations with the various professionals that might be involved in these planning activities?

Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yeah, so certainly your advisor, your investment advisor is one.

And really, you know, we kind of shoot to have a team approach to most all of this because it is important.

There are things that you may not, as you're trying to learn and work through this process, may not really occur to you.

But because the professionals that you have engaged, they've been down the road before and they've seen a lot of these things, so they can bring those to the forefront as well.

MILLER: Chris?

BUTTRESS: Well, it's important that whoever you work with, whether it's an accountant, an attorney, a financial adviser, a trust advisor, an insurance advisor, that they all communicate with one another.

What we don't know can hurt us, so working together is really very important.

MILLER: Yeah, I do know from our wealth management group's perspective that one of the initial things we do with people is we want to know who their lawyer is, we want to know who their accountant is, we want to know if they have a financial planner, their insurance agent, their broker.

You name the professional, we want to coordinate the team to make sure that everybody's doing what's best for that client.

Chris, you and I have known each other for a long time.

We've been friends for probably 30 years now.

One of the things I've always liked that you do with this subject is you talk about different phases, different times in people's lives and how they view those times in their lives from a planning perspective.

Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, your concept of the working years, the retirement years, and the doting years?

BUTTRESS: Well, it even starts before that, Mike.

Eighteen is the age of majority in Ohio, so technically, an 18 year old could have estate planning documents.

And so more and more when children are going off to college, their parents are calling us and saying, "You know, my kids need powers of attorney.

They need a health care power.

They need a living will."

And then when people are working, they're trying to accumulate wealth and they may have young children.

So their focus is on guardianship and things like that.

And as they become more established and have more assets, then they're concerned about protecting those assets, maybe putting them in trust for their children.

And as people, you know, the doting years I'm referring to is, you know, as people live like longer, we have a greater likelihood that we're going to reach a point in our lives when we're really not able to make all of our financial and medical decisions ourselves.

So having the appropriate documents in place, having the appropriate people identified is very important to our health, security, and well-being for as long as we're here.

MILLER: Jami, have you ever had a client that had to deal with their elderly parents?

And have you -- how do you talk to somebody and help them to approach those parents in what, as Chris said, as the doting years of the maybe toward the end of the life?

How do you approach that subject with somebody?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yeah, and that is very difficult.

As we all know, the older generations talked less and less about their financial situation.

That was just something that was off, it was just off the radar.

You weren't allowed to bring it up.

So it is difficult.

And really, it's more so helping them to kind of outline some of the questions that they should talk about and really just trying to encourage them and provide some guidance, some of those things that they can approach the conversation with.

MILLER: And Chris, on the other end of it, how do you -- I have a 32 year old son, a 30 year old daughter, and a granddaughter now.

And what's the best approach to a younger couple who hasn't really thought about this, but probably has heard or read something and knows they need some planning, but just not sure how to approach it.

How do you have that discussion with somebody?

BUTTRESS: Well, it's it's part of being a responsible adult.

Particularly when people have young children, usually the idea of if something happened to them, making sure that there is someone to take care of the child, personally making decisions for the child, the idea of guardianship.

But also having a financial structure, maybe a trust to provide for the child.

You know, it's interesting, many people will do an estate plan when their children are young.

And when you're planning for toddlers, it's one thing.

And then some of those clients come back to me 15 or 20 years later.

We've had a number of those this year.

I think COVID kind of encouraged people to look at things and the number of plans that we have that are 20 years old and those documents don't make sense any longer.

You're not providing for young children.

You're providing for adult children.

VALLANDINGHAM: And Chris, it's funny hat you say that.

Until about three years ago, my brother and I were still supposed to go live with my uncle if something happened to my parents, so that we kind of outlived that.

MILLER: Does he have a pool?

You know?

Hey, maybe you should.

VALLANDINGHAM: Right, exactly.

He pays the bills.

MILLER: So, I get from our conversation that communication is incredibly important at all levels.

One thing we really haven't touched on though, is how about communication with that community or a charitable entity that you want to leave a legacy for orengage with currently?

What's the best approach with those public organizations?

BUTTRESS: Well, I think if you want to support an organization, the best approach is to talk to some representative there to see what's important to the organization, what their needs are, to make sure that you properly designate whatever you're doing, whether it's just for general use or a particular purpose.

I had a client recently who carried it to the extreme in that there was a lot of back and forth with the organization in terms of the amount they were going to give, how it would be used, how it should be invested.

But they're your dollars, so it has to make sense for you.

But it doesn't make sense to give funds to an organization for a purpose that isn't consistent with their mission or their vision.

MILLER: Jami, what about you?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yeah, I think Chris hit it head on as far as, you know, working with those organizations, they, a lot of times the organizations have a planned giving a group that you can work with and kind of walk through what you are thinking and whether or not that aligns.

MILLER: Okay, you know, I do have to tell you that while you've both been talking, I've been using my time wisely and I filled out my Personal Estate Planning Guide that I got from CET.

What's my next step with this?

What do I do with the booklet?

What do I do with the information that I put in that booklet?

Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: I think first, number one, you need to make sure that someone knows where it is, if that's the document where you've gathered everything.

And then at that point, you can start working with your attorney, your other advisors, your CPAs, your investment advisor, trust advisors, whomever it is that you have on your team, so that everything -- or you need to create that team.

Because at this point, if you're just now completing that booklet and really thinking about it, maybe you're ready to assemble the team.

So a lot of times that's talking to your friends, neighbors, whomever, to see who they may refer you to.

MILLER: And I presume that before I put somebody's name in this book, I probably ought to have a conversation with them, Chris?

BUTTRESS: That's wise, Mike.

You know, it's -- I tell people too, sometimes they're trying to choose between children in terms of assigning roles.

And I said, "It's the good news and the bad news.

You know, the good news is you're the chosen one.

The bad news is you get all the responsibility that goes with it.

So, you know, part of it is, are you ready to be responsible for that role?

Is it something you're comfortable with?"

It's important.

You can't just throw it at somebody and expect them to do a good job.

MILLER: Well, I'll tell you, it looks like our time is up.

Thank you, Chris and Jami, for an engaging conversation, and thank you for joining us online.

We'll be back to wrap up our event with a live Q&A session.

MILLER: Welcome back.

We're live from CET studios and are eager to answer your questions about estate planning.

Use the box below this video to submit yours.

And let's get started.

The first question we have is from Carl.

And Carl asks: Kristin, you want to start us off?

LENHART: Sure, Mike.

You know to create a basic estate plan, and I think first, we should probably say what that is.

Typically, that is a will, possibly a trust, depending on your situation, and then typically powers of attorney.

So financial power of attorney, health care power of attorney, living will.

So to create that sort of basic package typically takes weeks to months, kind of depending on how fast clients can get their information together, how busy the attorney they're working with is, and that type of thing.

But it's usually a fairly, it can be a fairly short process, and then it's obviously something that you'll revisit periodically and will evolve over your lifetime.

But getting those initial docs in place is usually.

MILLER: How about delays caused by people who are trying to figure out who should be an executor or a trustee or a health care power holder?

Chris, do you have that issue?

BUTTRESS: Well, often times it's difficult to get those basic decisions from the client to enable us to begin drafting documents because sending somebody documents with a lot of holes in them doesn't really help.

But I tell people it's good to have a decision, even if it's not the perfect decision.

Because as Kristin pointed out, you're going to go back and revisit it from time to time.

So making some decision, even a not perfect one, is better than no decision at all.

MILLER: Okay, so the best plan is a flexible plan.

BUTTRESS: That's right.

MILLER: Jane asks us: Who wants to answer that question, because I think I might know the answer.

Kristin, what do you think?

LENHART: I mean, obviously, it depends on your situation, but generally for that executor position, you know, it might not be a good idea to have multiple people who are trying to do that particular role.

And that's a probate driven process where you're signing a lot of things and you're working, you know, doing that type of thing and to have multiple people have to sign everything can get kind of clunky.

But again, it depends on your situation, your family dynamics, the family situation.

If it's a blended family, maybe they feel more comfortable with someone sort of from each side being represented, so it can really just depend.

MILLER: David, so what are the characteristics when somebody has a couple of kids that they can't decide who should be the executor?

What are the characteristics of the child that should end up as the fiduciary in that case?

BROSS: Yeah.

So I mean, I think when I talk to clients about this very question, I think one of the things that I point out too is where are they at in their lives, you know, how responsible are they?

Are they good with managing money, managing their own assets, understanding what it is to be an executor, what that role may bring?

You know, do they have a good relationship with the other siblings because they're going to need to communicate with them?

Are they going to be able to work with professionals, like financial advisors, attorneys have that knowledge and that background to understand and kind of follow direction and work through that process.

So that's kind of where we start.

MILLER: Okay.

And before we get to the next question, what about the people that you name to act as the attorney, in fact, in your financial power and maybe a living will and health care power?

Jami, what what characteristics should those people have?

VALLANDINGHAM: I think it really does follow kind of the same line.

You want to make sure they are responsible, that they that they will follow through on what they say they're going to do?

This is an entire process that needs to be completed, so you've got to have somebody that's going to take it all the way through.

MILLER: Okay, good.

Next question Kenneth has asked: Kenneth, we did not ask for CLE credit because this is a program, while we are glad to have professionals in our audience, this is truly a program for more lay supporters of WCET -- CET and ThinkTV to learn about the basics of estate planning.

Next question from Saswati: So now we're getting into a little more complexity.

Chris, do you want to start us off with this one?

BUTTRESS: Well, so the first part of the question is talking about being inherited by the children.

And so the retirement dollars, IRA dollars, 401k dollars when they're paid to the beneficiary are going to be taxable income, so that's an important consideration.

The rules in terms of how quickly those distributions need to be made are dependent on a variety of factors, and it really is a very complex kind of analysis.

So that's part of it.

And then the second part of the question asks about the required minimum distributions when the IRA is paid into a trust.

And again, there are rules for determining looking at the trust.

Do you look at the lives of the trust beneficiaries?

It will depend if it's a spouse or non spouse, a lot of things come into play in making that assessment.

MILLER: So, there are decisions to be made about how long the beneficiary stream is present, right?

BUTTRESS: The choice of the beneficiary, whether it's an individual or a trust, and the terms of the trust will determine how long the distributions can be extended.

MILLER: Okay.

Next question from Deborah: Retirees, what kind of estate planning issues are there for retirees, Kristin?

LENHART: There are still a lot of issues to consider.

And as I mentioned at the beginning, you know, your plan typically doesn't just -- isn't just like your will or your will and trust.

I mean, you also, especially as a retiree, want to consider those powers of attorney.

Those are very important documents.

Those are if you become incapacitated during your lifetime.

So as you are older in retirement, that kind of thing, those can become that much more important because you need someone to make health decisions for you if you can't make those or financial decisions for you if you can't make financial decisions.

So, I would still encourage people to really be sure that they have sort of those core documents in place, especially powers of attorney.

And your situation upon your death may not be very complex, but it is still a good idea to have a basic will at a minimum, MILLER: And golf can be part of your estate plan, is that true?

[chuckles] All right, next question from Sam.

Next question from Doug.

[chuckles] LENHART: That's Sam.

MILLER: Next question from Sam: Chris, I think we'll give that one to you.

BUTTRESS: Well, there are two aspects to guardianship.

One is guardianship of the person.

The other is guardianship of the estate.

So with a disabled adult, the guardian may be only the guardian of the person because the person the as disabled individual may not have financial resources that are part of the guardianship.

Or there may also be the guardianship of the estate, the management of the funds.

With respect to guardianship of the person, that's the individual charged with making decisions on where that individual lives, what kind of medical care they receive, just all the day to day personal decisions.

The guardianship of the estate is charged, the guardian is charged with managing the financial resources of the individual.

And so there are very strict rules on how the funds can be spent and obtaining advance court approval for doing that.

So, there are a lot of aspects to guardianship, and it can be very complex.

Many times, though, when it's a disabled individual, it may be just guardianship of the person, MILLER: Okay.

And who has the oversight for the guardianship?

Probate court?

BUTTRESS: It is there, the probate court, yes, in Ohio.

MILLER: Next question from Doug: David, why don't you tell us, first of all, for those that don't know what TOD and POD stand for?

BROSS: Yeah.

So TOD stands for Transfer On Death and POD stands for Payable On Death.

They are essentially one in the same.

It's a beneficiary designation where you're naming an individual or an entity to receive that particular asset when you pass away.

TOD is commonly used with real estate, brokerage accounts.

PODs are typically used with like a checking or savings account at the bank.

They are useful tools in estate planning.

By having that beneficiary attached to those accounts you're going to avoid probate, but that isn't a complete estate plan.

There's obviously other considerations being made or other assets that you'd want to have an estate plan for.

The second part of the question is, you know, if the same -- if the owner of the account and then that beneficiary die at the same time, that does create somewhat of a problem if you don't have a contingent beneficiary attached to that transfer on death beneficiary designation.

So, you definitely want to have a contingent individual or entity attached to that as well.

So, in that situation where both pass the same time, there's always somebody on the back end that can receive that asset.

MILLER: So, even if you have all of your assets with TOD or POD designations, a will is still a good thing to have.

BROSS: Absolutely, because that's the fallback plan, right?

So that will's going to come in and it's going to direct where there's assets will go if something should like that happen.

MILLER: And Doug mentions that he has beneficiaries on his 401ks.

And I've seen circumstances where through neglect or forgetfulness, a 401k doesn't have a beneficiary.

What happens if you have a retirement plan, you die and there's no name beneficiary?

BROSS: Well, it's going to have to go through probate in order for that to be distributed out.

And then that probate is going to be determined by the will, if there's a will, or -- And I think we talked earlier, state statute.

That state statute's going to dictate to whom is going to receive that asset and what amounts.

So, the problem with not having a good estate plan is that default is the state statute, that may not be the people who you wanted to receive your inheritance or your net worth.

So, just another good reason to have at least a will in place.

MILLER: Okay.

The next question from S. Parker: Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: So, you know, certainly when you start looking at this, you can ask for referrals.

I think in the program we had talked about that a little bit that a lot of times the best place to find someone that you can work with is by a referral.

You already know that they had a good relationship with them and they were pleased with the way that worked.

So outside of that, I mean, that really is a good place to start.

But again, you have banks, sometimes there's trust departments that are willing to function in that regard as well.

And that may be your best choice because they are truly going to follow that, the letter of how everything is written and handle your affairs for you exactly as you wish.

MILLER: I agree, we do have some very good trust departments in Cincinnati, especially up north of Cincinnati.

But that is a good place to go and talk to your lawyer, talk to your accountant, talk to your financial planner, talk to your broker, you know, get referrals of people that they trust because you trust them.

That's good.

Okay, next question from Deborah: The inferences is: Why don't I just do it myself?

Kristin?

LENHART: Well, of course I'm going to say yes, you obviously do.

No, I mean, I really would say that I think it is important to spend the money to have it done, have it done right, have it done with an attorney.

Not only to make sure it says what you want it to say and that you're not, you know, if you go online, a lot of times those are under California, and can you know -- I had an experience once where a couple came in and had done something online and they're like, "Oh, we're all, we think we're fine.

We're leaving everything to our children equally."

"Well, it says, here you're leaving everything to your one daughter."

They're like, "No, no, that's all we want."

I said, "Well, that's what it says."

So I think people sometimes get into situations where they don't -- they're plugging in some things and it spits out something and it might not be what you want.

But the other piece of that, too, is just that to have it signed properly?

I mean, I get clients all the time that will have me prepare it, but then say, "Oh, we'll just get it executed on our own."

I'm always hesitant with that because inevitably it comes back and you're going through it and you're like, "Okay, well, this isn't, you know, you didn't do this correctly.

You didn't have the right witnesses.

You didn't check here.

You didn't initial here."

So, I think that's part of it as well.

MILLER: What about the couple that lives in say, I don't know, Texas, which is a community property state and moves to Ohio and comes to talk to you and says, "Well, we've got an estate plan in Texas.

It's fine."

What do you say to somebody like that?

Is it fine?

LENHART: Well, I mean, your plan is usually valid in another state.

Now, community property is kind of its own animal, so there are certainly issues there, you know, with those states that have community property.

MILLER: But it depends on the state where they came from, and the state where they wind up.

LENHART: Yeah.

But yes, you -- and yeah.

But you usually do, if it's a permanent move, you know, you usually do want to kind of revisit things and see if you need to get your documents updated.

MILLER: Another reason to use a lawyer instead of yourself, right?

LENHART: That's right.

MILLER: Okay.

BROSS: And just one comment on that is, you know, the one thing I say to clients who ask me this question is you can pay a little bit now to have this estate plan done with a professional, have it done correctly, or your family can pay a lot more on the back end fixing all the problems that you've created by not doing it right.

So, by doing it with a professional, I think it gives some level of peace of mind that is worth that little extra money to do it right.

MILLER: I think we all agree to that.

Jacqueline wants to know: What is a good checklist to use when estate planning?

And I just happen to have here the personal estate planning guide put out by CET.

At the end of the program, you'll receive an email which will allow you to send us back a request for this brochure, which is a great estate planning tool, a great checklist to use in your estate planning.

Ron wants to know: So should we have an attorney do health care powers and living wills?

And what is the income level needed to trigger a trust?

Chris?

BUTTRESS: Well, the first part of the question, the health care power of attorney and living will really goes to Kristin's point.

You can do these things yourself.

You can find those forms on the Ohio website, and you can probably fill them out.

You may sign them properly.

There are some options there, but what you don't have is you don't have the benefit of the advice that an attorney can give you in helping you understand the importance of naming alternates or including any kind of special instructions or limitations, or really understanding how the health care power of attorney and living will work together because they are companion documents.

In terms of the question about at what income level is a trust needed, it isn't so much a question of income level, but really a matter of your goals and objectives.

Do you need a trust to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish?

So, certainly the more dollars involved, the more likely that you're going to need a trust.

But sometimes if you have a beneficiary who is relatively young and you are not comfortable with those assets being turned over to them at age 18, when they're legally an adult, you may need a trust for a smaller dollar amount because you want to make sure that it's protected until that individual reaches an appropriate age.

MILLER: There are other issues, too.

We had a prior question about trust for someone under a disability that have special circumstances.

BUTTRESS: A reason why you would want to have a trust.

MILLER: So, the answer is it depends on your circumstance, depends on what you want to accomplish.

Okay, next question: Kristin?

LENHART: I mean, I think at this point, it sounds like her documentation may be in place.

And it's a little bit unclear if she would have the capacity to execute additional documents should something else be needed like a will or something at this point.

But, you know, making sure those documents are updated.

And then it sounds like maybe in this situation, there's not a lot of property, but making sure, like David talked about earlier, that we have, like, TODs or PODs, to the extent she does have assets, making sure you have someone designated to receive those is a good idea.

MILLER: Good.

Okay.

Next question is from Nanda: David?

BROSS: Absolutely.

And in a lot of cases, I know clients that I work with a lot of times we use IRAs, retirement plans, and we designate the charities that they want to give to as the beneficiaries of those assets.

Because the charities don't pay that income tax that their children would.

And so it's an effective way of passing on assets, you know, at a lower tax rate, I guess you can say, to the rest of your family.

So one hundred percent, I think it's a great strategy.

MILLER: Okay.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that CET/ThinkTV would make a good charitable beneficiary, of course.

BROSS: Yes.

MILLER: And I assume also that in your professional lives you speak with people all the time about charitable legacy and how to best accomplish that.

Is that true?

Okay.

Next question from Jean: We need a lawyer on this one.

Chris?

BUTTRESS: Thank you, Mike.

Well, having a trust, if you put the assets into the trust while you're alive, is one way to avoid probate.

So, that can be one of the reasons for having a trust could be to avoid probate.

Another reason is what we talked about earlier, making sure that assets are administered for a beneficiary until the beneficiary is of an appropriate age to receive them, or if the person has a disability And there can be tax planning reasons for having a trust.

So, those are probably the three big reasons for someone having a trust in the context of an estate plan.

MILLER: I hear all the time people say, "I have to avoid probate.

It's too expensive.

It's horrible.

I don't want to go to probate court.

I don't want to tie my family up for years."

Is that true?

Is it not true?

BUTTRESS: Can I take that one, Mike?

MILLER: Yes.

BUTTRESS: Okay.

So, we do work with clients frequently to avoid probate.

But probate is not the horrible thing that many people think it is.

And many of the materials and books that are written on avoiding probate are based on probate in the State of California.

And probate in the State of California is much different than probate in Ohio or Kentucky or Indiana, the states around here, MILLER: Everything's different in California.

BUTTRESS: Well, that may be.

So, understanding what it is you're avoiding is important, and sometimes it can actually be beneficial for certain assets to pass through probate.

MILLER: Now, the question was about either or, but it's really both.

If you have a trust, you need a will.

And if you have a will, you might need a trust.

Is that true, Kristin?

LENHART: Yeah, I mean, it can.

I mean, certainly if you have a trust, you're usually going to always want to have a will.

And typically in that situation, the will does what we would call as a pour over will is it just sends all your assets into your trust.

And then that trust becomes that repository that actually distributes the assets.

And the reverse can certainly be true, too.

I mean, I would say everyone should have a will, not necessarily everyone needs to trust.

That depends more on your situation.

MILLER: Okay, so Saswati asks a question: I'm sorry, it's not funny.

It's a legitimate question.

I just think about my own kids, you know, when they were 18 and 20, there's no way.

When they're 30 and 32, there might be a way.

When they're 50 and 55, there probably is a way.

So Chris, what do you think?

Jami?

Let's go to Jami.

Jami, has it.

What do you think?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yeah, it does depend on the child and their maturity level.

Because there are some 60 year olds that probably shouldn't be a successor trustee.

So, it really just does depend, to the question we talked about before, It really is how that person is.

Are they responsible?

Are they going to make the right decisions?

MILLER: And I want to go back to that point too, the person who asks about having multiple executors.

Personally, I've never been a fan of that because somebody has to have authority to make decisions.

And when you have more than one person involved, it can get a little cumbersome.

Agree, disagree?

Prefer just a single trustee, a single executor?

BUTTRESS: I definitely agree that one person serving in the role of executor or trustee probably is preferred in terms of just the convenience and expedience of getting things done.

Now, having said that, there can be circumstances.

I think Kristin talked about sort of the blended family where you have each side represented or sometimes siblings who have complementary skill sets, where having them both be involved might help.

Or I've had situations where there are five or six children, and allowing one person to be in charge maybe doesn't work for the whole group.

But if you have two people involved, it can work.

So, there can be very good reasons for having more than one person.

MILLER: So, part of the reason you want to use a lawyer to help you with your estate planning is so that you can understand the different aspects or the different opportunities you might have within the plan.

Is that true, David?

BROSS: Yeah.

I mean, I think the experience that an attorney will bring to the table is going to allow you to have those questions asked.

It's going to give you the opportunity to think about those different situations and the options you may have to solve those different problems.

Doing on your own, you're not going to.

There's not going to be that realization that these problems do exist, in most cases.

But when you're working with that professional, you're going to be -- they're going to be able to identify all these different areas that you're going to have to think about and you're going to have to plan for.

MILLER: Good.

Kimberly wants to know: How do I get the CET personal financial planning booklet that we showed you a little bit earlier.

Again, there will be an email out to all people on the on these seminar and you'll be able to respond to that and have us get you either an electronic version of the estate planning guide or the actual physical version can be sent to you.

Question from Kellie: Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: I would say yes.

Those usually are three different people.

You want to have a team.

The team effort is going to be the most beneficial for you.

As far as where do you start with that?

A lot of times it's just asking your friends or your family.

If you know someone that is in one of those particular areas, you may not be comfortable using them just because you may wind up, it's a little too close.

You don't really want them to know what you have or don't have, in some situations.

But it's nice to at least ask their opinion of someone else that they may be able to recommend, only because it also could put them in a bad situation as well, to kind of separate that relationship a little bit.

But definitely ask around.

The referral is going to be your best place to find that just simply because those that are working in those various industries always have other people that they're working with and they know who does a nice job and who will take care of you.

MILLER: Let me ask you this, if I need an attorney and I need an investment advisor and I need an insurance agent, I need a financial planner and I need a trustee, I can get a bunch of different people involved.

But who runs the relationship?

How does that work?

It seems a little cumbersome.

Is there a quarterback?

Is there somebody that is responsible for coordinating the process?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yeah, it is, there's usually someone that is going to kind of be leading the charge in all of that.

Some of that depends on personality and that can have a big drive in really what that team looks like and how that team shapes up.

But there usually is.

You want to have one person that's kind of involved and knows really what's going on in most everything that's happening.

MILLER: And really the client, the person that puts the team together should be the one that everybody responds to, right?

VALLANDINGHAM: Yes.

MILLER: Okay.

Next question from Carl: Charitable trusts, will you cover these?

Of course we will.

Chris, charitable trusts.

BUTTRESS: Well, there are any number of types of charitable trusts.

You know, sometimes we talk about the ABCs of these things.

We have, you know, Charitable Lead Trusts, CLTs We have Charitable Remainder Trusts, CRTs.

We have variations of those themes.

And then there are charitable trusts that establish private foundations.

So, what type of trust is appropriate for a particular individual depends on their goals and objectives.

Charitable Lead Trust, the charitable interest is paid first.

What's left goes to individual beneficiaries.

Charitable Remainder Trust, the individual beneficiaries receive it first.

What's left goes to to the charity or charities.

And which vehicle works best at a given point in time depends on various interest rates that the IRS publishes monthly.

It depends on the nature of your assets and investments.

There are a lot of tax issues that come into play.

But those are all, it's all a question of you have a limited number of dollars and how do you make those dollars provide the greatest benefit, taking dollars that would otherwise be paid for taxes and either going to individual or charitable beneficiaries?

MILLER: And I do know that the one thing that all those charitable vehicles have in common is they can all lead to CET and ThinkTV.

BUTTRESS: They can.

MILLER: That's what I thought.

Okay.

Babul wants to know: Kristin?

LENHART: So I think he's probably asking, like, should each of the member of couple each have their own trust or should they just have one sort of joint family trust?

And like a lot of these things, that really just depends on their situation.

If they're trying to do estate tax planning, which isn't something we've really touched on this evening, but you know, then there might be times or if they're keeping assets in trust for the lifetime of their children, depending on their goals.

You know, there may be reasons when they each need their own trust.

And then also how they hold their assets, you know, too.

If their main goal is just once they're both gone and they hold a lot of things jointly or with each other as beneficiaries where it's all going to go to the spouse anyway, then there may be times when that sort of family trust or one trust that only comes into play at the second death is more appropriate.

MILLER: sOkay.

So what you're saying, an individual might have their own trust, but you can also do a trust with two grantors, two people that set up the trust?

LENHART: Right.

We would call that like a joint trust or a second to die trust or something of that nature.

MILLER: Okay.

Suzanne asks: David, you're one of the financial guys here.

What do you think?

BROSS: Well, I mean, I think this is a tough question to answer.

I think it ultimately comes down to, you know, the client and what they're trying to accomplish and who are the beneficiaries they're trying to pass their assets to.

I don't see any problem doing either or.

I mean, I think either or it could work in an estate plan.

The question is, why do you want to only give somebody $50,000 and then other people $250,000 or, you know, give them 10% versus 25%?

I think that all comes down to the goals of the particular client.

And in terms of considerations, you know, who's the beneficiary?

What does that beneficiary mean to you?

Why do you want to pass that legacy onto that beneficiary?

And maybe that would have a say in terms of the percentage or the amount that you pass on to that beneficiary?

MILLER: John wants to know.

Sorry.

John wants to know: And I think we've talked a little bit about this being the difference between having a will and having a trust.

But Jami, do you want to tell us about this?

VALLANDINGHAM: Sure.

So the trust can be set up to do any number of things, as we've talked about.

It can be charitable.

It can be holding your assets.

Where as the estate is really the assets that you own and the entire, everything that you have.

And I know when we did the other discussion, Chris had put it very eloquently, the difference between the two of those.

But you know, it's the trust can be throughout your life or it can be established after you pass, whereas the estate is the handling of all of that.

MILLER: Jean asks: I think we've talked about this before, but it really depends on the circumstance, which is why you want to have a conversation with an attorney, with your financial planner, with your investment adviser to make sure that your legacy is one that passes after you pass.

All of this is interrelated, and it depends on what you want to do.

And I think that's what some people forget.

They ask is there a right way to do this?

The right way is to get professional help with it, but it depends on what they want to do, right?

It depends on what their legacy, what they want their legacy to be.

Ned asks: Chris, step up basis.

BUTTRESS: Step up basis.

Well, step up basis is the concept that when you die, we look at the fair market value of your assets.

And then going forward from that point, the individual or entity, if it's a trust that received those assets, has a starting point for determining gain or loss.

So, I guess common example is you have shares of stock.

It's now worth $100 a share, but you bought it for $50 a share.

If you were to sell that, you would have a $50 gain.

If you hold those shares until your death and they're worth $100 a share and somebody inherits those from you, they under current law, take those shares at $100 a share basis and could sell them for $100 without any gain being incurred.

MILLER: If I have those shares in my name, a hundred shares, and I sell them and I have gained because I paid $50 a share for them, I have to pay the capital gains tax.

What happens if I give those shares to CET/ThinkTV?

BUTTRESS: If you give those shares to a charitable organization, you get the benefit of a charitable deduction based on that $100 a share value and you don't recognize any gain.

And the charity doesn't recognize gain when it sells the shares because the charity doesn't pay income tax.

It's a public charity.

MILLER: So there's no tax paid to the government.

Okay, we like that.

Marissa wants to know: Kristin, we talked about moving from one state to another.

But what about moving from one county to another?

LENHART: Yeah, that typically is not going to necessitate the need for an update.

I mean, I would just tell a client the next time you're doing another type of update, if you're changing executors or guardians or something like that, then we would reflect that.

But your estate would be probated in wherever you resided upon your death, so it doesn't have to be the county that's listed on your will.

MILLER: Mary asks: Chris, what is an Elder Lawyer, and don't say a lawyer over 60, because I'm over 60, so.

BUTTRESS: Well, so I would define an Elder Lawyer or Elder Law as a subset of estate planning where there is a greater focus on people of a certain more advanced age.

And generally speaking, when people are asking those kinds of questions, they're concerned about the cost of long-term nursing home care over a long period of time, and they're looking at things like planning to qualify for Medicaid benefits.

So when we hear Elder Law, we usually think of that in terms of somebody who's trying to preserve assets and qualify for Medicaid benefits.

And yes, that is a specialized group within the estate planning area.

MILLER: Denise wants to know: David, I know we need to define what a simple estate plan is, and I know Kristin did that a little bit earlier.

So why don't we revisit that and let's all talk about what should it cost and why does it cost what it does cost?

BROSS: Yeah, so when we say simple estate plan, I think of four documents.

I think of financial power of attorney, health care power of attorney, a living will, and a last will and testament.

I think the fifth document, the trust, you're creating a trust because there are certain circumstances going on that are unique to you that necessitate that document.

I think that then crosses the threshold from simple into a little bit more complex.

In terms of cost, I don't know if I'm going to answer that question directly because it's all over the board.

And, you know, I think there are some attorneys that'll probably, you know, charge you something very cheap to do that work.

And there are other attorneys that may be a little bit more expensive.

Why the price range is there, I think that's just up to the individual attorney.

But I don't think there's one set fee across the board for that, unfortunately.

MILLER: Chris?

BUTTRESS: I don't, number one, there is no one set fee, but what we typically tell people is we'll have an initial conversation with you, gather some basic information, make a determination of the types of documents we think are appropriate for you.

To David's point, if it's a will, a general power or health care power, living will.

And if it's that we estimate that it'll cost between A and B because even within those documents, there can be levels of complexity.

It's, you know, simple is usually I leave everything to my spouse, and if my spouse doesn't survive me, I leave it equally to my kids and there's nothing, there are no oddities, there are no blended families.

There's no, you know, nothing special, nothing extraordinary.

But that isn't everyone's situation.

So some people can have just those basic documents, but those documents become more complex because they do have a blended family.

You know, they have the yours, mine and ours, or they have people that they want to benefit who are non family members.

There's just all, all kinds of things that enter into it.

And I think part of the reason that there is a large range, even from attorney to attorney in preparing basically the same documents is maybe the thoroughness, the number of questions and information that the attorney asks and the amount of coordination there is between the documents and the assets that the person owns.

Did the attorney help, you know, help instruct them and guide them in terms of beneficiary designations and how assets are titled?

And that's probably one of the areas in estate planning people sometimes become so focused that it's about the documents.

The documents need to be well thought out and correct, but they also need to be coordinated with the assets and the beneficiary designation.

You can have wonderful documents, but if the assets are held in a way that's incompatible with the plan that's laid out, it's not going to accomplish what you want.

MILLER: So more important than the cost, which is important to everybody, but is the value that you receive for the dollars that you pay.

And the value comes from the experience and the thoroughness of the attorney that you use?

Correct?

BUTTRESS: Correct.

MILLER: Okay.

We do have time, we're going to do three more questions.

This is from Tess: Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: I would say have nothing.

I'm not sure that, you know, have nothing is always is the case, but there's usually something.

But certainly, you know, when you're talking about the power of attorney, the medical directives, all of that, absolutely, they should still have those.

You know, if there is truly nothing to leave in a will, okay, but you do have to then be careful of, okay, what if they find something after the fact?

You know, you just think there's nothing, but there really is.

So, you may want to have a simple will.

We spent a lot of time talking about what simple is, but you may want to have something just simple drawn.

MILLER: And Kristin, what about the circumstance where there are minor children?

Isn't a will important, can be important from that aspect?

LENHART: Yes, absolutely.

I mean, that is where you're going to designate who would be the guardian of those children if something happened to the parents, which is very important when you have minor children.

And minor children, again, do add some level of complexity that you typically are going to want someone to oversee those assets for those children until they reach ages that you feel are appropriate versus if something happened to you and not having anything and then having that go into the probate court and they get it when they're 18 and it's expensive and -- MILLER: Okay.

Jane, has a question: David, you're leaving a lot of jewelry, I suspect.

BROSS: Oh yeah, so much.

[laughter] BROSS: Yeah, I mean, I think you can use a will.

The thing with the will, though, however, is the fact that if you include it in the will document itself, the probate court is going to look for that particular item and depending on the value there could be some appraisals and some things that need to be done there.

Some people attach an exhibit or some type of a writing, and they just put that with their estate plan and they direct their executor or their loved ones, "This is who I want to receive these things."

And the family knows that that's what their wishes are and they respect those wishes.

MILLER: Personal Property Memorandum.

I believe I remember creating those, recreating those, people changing their mind.

But if you have a separate document referenced in the will, you can change the list when it's required, right?

BUTTRESS: Well, whether it's in the will or the separate list, you can, you can change it.

There are ways to, you know, to facilitate changing it.

And you know, a lot of times people, there are extremes.

There are people who have lists that go on for pages and pages and pages because these things are very important to them.

But I think when it comes to personal property, one of the things to be reconciled is how does what's important to you, how is that valued by the people that you want to give it to?

Because sometimes the value is not the same on both sides.

So, I will say this, we can spend a whole lot of time and effort dealing with tangible personal property beyond the monetary value, because often times those things have sentimental value.

And that's where part of it is a will and an estate is really geared toward transferring things that have monetary value.

The probate court really doesn't care so much about things that don't have monetary value.

The rules are set up based on, you know, on value.

But things that have sentimental value can be really important.

And having a plan that addresses those things and talking about those things with the people that you would like to have received them and find out what is it that's really important to people, is there's something they want to have.

MILLER: What was the name of that book?

BUTTRESS: Who Gets Grandma's Yellow Pie Plate?

So, there is a book that was put out in the late '90s by the University of Minnesota Extension Office, and it's a workbook on how to deal with tangible personal property.

And it's written from the standpoint both of the person who owns the stuff, and there's information from the perspective of the family members, children and grandchildren, whoever it is that might receive the items.

And I think I still have a few of those stashed away some place.

MILLER: I've got one in my office.

BUTTRESS: I've given them as gifts over the years to various clients to encourage them.

Because sometimes when people do have things of significant monetary value, collections or valuable jewelry or whatever, it might be, designating a few particular items to particular individuals can help the process get started.

So, if grandmother decides that she wants me to have this particular treasured item, that means something, as opposed to just me selecting from among the items, so.

MILLER: And I think we did talk about this in the seminar portion of, you know, have those conversations with people.

Just because you think somebody wants your H.O.

train set, doesn't mean they actually want it.

Or, you know, who knows if Joe doesn't want it, but Mike might.

So, have conversations with people.

It's sometimes difficult, but you have to talk to your family, talk to your children, grandchildren, right, when it's appropriate?

BUTTRESS: When it's appropriate.

MILLER: Babul wants to know: David?

BROSS: Yeah, I think the short answer to this is yes.

And this was a rule that changed a couple of years ago as a result of something called the Secure Act.

It used to be the rule was beneficiaries could take out the IRA over the course of their life expectancy.

These require minimum distributions.

Now it has been shrunken down to a 10 year period.

And so what that essentially means is that that particular inherited IRA has to be withdrawn fully within that 10 year period.

It could be done day one you inherit it, it could be done over the course of that 10 year period, or it could be done in the 10th year, but it would be have to be in that 10 year period.

MILLER: Okay.

May wants to know: Jami?

VALLANDINGHAM: I'm not so sure if simpler is the right answer or is the right question.

I think maybe we're thinking about the taxability of that.

The traditional IRA, of course, is going to cause tax in most cases.

The Roth IRA, the benefit of those Roths, is that the distributions under current law are not taxable.

So when you have, you've inherited the Roth IRA, you're not going to pay tax on any of those distributions that are coming out.

But in the traditional IRA, the deductible contributions that you've made, those will be taxable.

MILLER: Okay.

And we have time for one more question.

This is from Jane.

Sounds good to me, a party, right?

BUTTRESS: Well, I can actually say it wasn't quite an open house, but when my husband's grandmother passed, she had quite the collection of mostly costume jewelry, but different baubles and so on.

And we actually had a little reception for the female members of the family, and we each chose the items that we wanted and had refreshments and toasted her in the process.

So it was a wonderful experience.

MILLER: That's great.

I have a I have a cup from the 1930s from Cincinnati, it has a statue or the fountain on it and all kinds of things from Cincinnati given to me by a woman who had no children.

She gave little mementos.

And every time I look at that, and she died 35 years ago, I still have it.

And every time I look at that, I think of her and I think, what a wonderful woman she was.

So, what a great idea, right?

And that is going to be our last question.

On behalf of Chris, Jami, Kristin, and myself, and all of us at CET/ThinkTV, thank you for being part of our estate planning seminar and panel discussion.

I hope we've answered your questions, or at least given you food for thought and follow up.

Until the next time, be safe, enjoy your evening, and thank you for your support of CET/ThinkTV?

Good night!

LENSMAN: That concludes our estate planning discussion.

Thank you to Chris, Jami and Mike for your time and expertise.

Thank you for joining us online.

For additional information on planned giving, please visit our websites.

We hope that you plant the seed for you, your family and your legacy.

Have a great night.

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